Monday, December 28, 2009


Note: The below mentioned conversation was the outcome of the discussion on my previous post “Bet”. That post had only one sentence which speaks about love expression. I, in my view, liked the conversation with Kush, my office colleague, and would like to post the exchange of ideas and dialogues. The chat represents view points on “LOVE”. For the convenience, let me re-write the sentence on which all the dialogues are based. The disputed line is:
“I offered you my lifetime slavery. Let me bet, if you get a better or even an equivalent offer!”

Kush: To be a slave is to be low,
for even I am not a king..
Don't offer or submit to anyone,
don't shed that free wing....

Share your life with pride,
for even a slave can at times rise..
Let me know your true worth,
let me feel that you are wise....

No offer is more or less,
you are meant to share the reign
I give you back your freedom,
beside my throne you are to be seen....

Shweta : Indeed an ever nicely written fact a poem...I truly admire and agree with what you have written....but just to add or can say just to bring to your notice.. the view point & thought that I meant by the by saying slave means SURRENDER....I offered my slavery... means... I surrender myself and my love to you...I surrender my unconditional ownership to you...I love you and respect you to that extent that I even won't mind loosing my fact I will feel proud..the same proud which a stream feels, after merging with an ocean ....the sense of completeness...the sense of purpose...the essence of togetherness......

Kush: Well said, I did understand your meaning in the first place. Lets rephrase my answer in another way, meaning remaining same though..

Let there be no compromise,
for true love believes in it not...
It only sees love and respect,
the heart is never shot....

Love means not to loose,
it doesn't know "I" or "YOU"
It only knows about giving,
it knows to be true....

Love asks not,
Love demands none..
It only feels the presence,
it only bathes in the Sun....

For what I mean to say,
is that love is always mutual..
Don't surrender or submit to other,
Don't even go for a fierce dual....

True as you say,
the stream merges in ocean..
but no more it remains fresh & sweet,
no more it experiences its own motion....

To loose oneself in love,
is to mean subtraction..
But is that what love is about ??
'Cause completeness comes with addition....

PS: What I mean is its good if love is unconditional, but not at the cost of you leaving your true self behind. No surrender, no submission, no slavery and no individuality is lost in love...rather it is expressed more but altogether in a different sense.

Shweta : My Answer:

K: “It only knows about giving”
S: unconditional giving itself means Surrender or Devotion.

K: Love means not to loose,
it doesn't know "I" or "YOU"
S: Surrendering oneself doesn’t mean loosing but to celebrate the charm of togetherness. Both “I” and “You” needs to be surrendered to make a meaningful word “WE”. Before, You & I were incomplete but the surrender only had made a complete word. Since, Love is not about asking but about giving, so I can only fulfill my part, by saying that I offer you my slavery (surrender), I just can’t speak about his say. I simply can do my bit. Here, even if you take the literal meaning of the word “loose” as loosing, then also it is benefiting me only, as I am loosing my “I” and gaining “WE”.

K: Love asks not,
Love demands none..
It only feels the presence,
it only bathes in the Sun....
S: Even a singular entity like Sun is made up of multiple entities (rays). White light is a mixture of colors and even in merging form it holds and enjoys the power of individual characteristic. So, even if you say that “the stream merges in ocean....but no more it remains fresh & sweet, no more it experiences its own motion....” doesn’t seem to hold a realistic meaning. It has got its own motion, the only difference is world might not be able to see and realize it but the stream itself knows the worth of its proposition in ocean.

K: To loose oneself in love,
is to mean subtraction..
S: Love and Life can never be measured on the scale of mathematics.
Multiplication, subtraction, addition rule doesn’t imply here. Here 1+1 neither makes 2 nor 11 but itself remain “1” in an intact and undetectable form.

K: Let there be no compromise,
for true love believes in it not...
S: Voluntarily giving up (like Meera bai surrendered to lord Krishna) or a wishful gift cannot be taken as a compromise.

It’s a token of love, a sense of expression, a beauty of relationship. Whatever I am doing out of my true feel cannot be taken as a compromise. My devotion towards my love should not be challenged as a compromise.

Kush: Unconditional giving comes & is successful only when both think the same way...I am not sure in your original blog if you meant that. Now lets begin from last...I knew from your words and thought process that Meera Bai is somewhere behind it. Tell me what love is that which can't bring 2 people together, Meera never stayed with Krishna and in a way betrayed her husband by not being loyal to him either from mind and soul....If love is all about the stream joining ocean, then I don't see our Meeraba or even Radha to get married and stay happily with Krishna, did they?? Now you might say, its all about feelings and the heart, but both of them still remained far. Its like a lake of Himalayas wishing to join Arabian sea, yet not leaving the mountains.
A person's true feeling and love is admired; but then think once, will that person truly be satisfied with it in his/her whole life. Can you possibly give every bit of yours to someone without expecting anything back ?? Then if tomorrow the other denies his/her love, will you still continue to love him/her without once feeling angry, sad or betrayed. If one can do that, then that is "true, unconditional love"...but 21st century sees no one like this.

Maintain your dignity,
keep to yourself your feel..
Only when you know the other,
then you open your seal....

Love's meaning is lost,
people think their own..
but universal love is that,
which by nature has been shown....

Blame you cannot,
nor be angry or sad..
You have to unconditionally obey,
even if the other is bad....

There still has been no example,
where true love has won..
No compromise-no separation,
where completeness has been shown....

I rest my case to you,
tell me if you know one..
And happy I shall be as much,
for my seal then can be undone....

Shweta : Woo nice poem and a nice reply also.
Let me start by taking as a scratch a sentence written by you only “Tell me what love is that which can't bring 2 people together, Meera never stayed with Krishna and in a way betrayed her husband by not being loyal to him either from mind and soul”. Well, Meera never betrayed her husband. She performed all the duties as a wife. Moreover, Rana ji (husband) always had a soft corner for meera, he always liked her and was aware of meera’s affection towards Krishna and if he knew about the feeling before the marriage we can’t call it as a betrayal.

“If love is all about the stream joining ocean, then I don't see our Meeraba or even Radha to get married and stay happily with Krishna, did they??” I find it difficult to agree on the point that love should end in “milan” though nothing better can ever happen if 2 love birds meet for forever. In simple terms, before stepping the stairs of love no one in advance knows about the destiny...the best they can do is just their what if a stream desires to flow in heaven and not on earth...atleast she had guts to dream impossible and tried her best to make it possible. And its not always like.... that great Lovers are never meant to meet finally...history shows some exceptional cases as well.....why we tend to forget about Lord Shiva and Parvati......Paravati as a reward of her penance got shiva and penance is nothing but her efforts which finally paid her. Yeah, I definitely agree, that one will surely feel depressed if his/her hard efforts and true feelings are not paid in the end....but I guess Life is like this always get through your not always mandatory....the worst and questionable part of destiny!!

“Can you possibly give every bit of yours to someone without expecting anything back?? Then if tomorrow the other denies his/her love, will you still continue to love him/her without once feeling angry, sad or betrayed.” A very practical statement written by you.....but again I have something to add up. I have no idea if you have ever gone to village or have witnessed any family where a female loves her husband even if he doesn’t care about her. Husband is really cruel; he speaks shit and has nonsense activities....still she lives her life with that person not because she has any restriction but because her love for him is greater than mountains. She is ready to be with that person even in the worst condition just by knowing the fact that she is given with a chance to serve his love and to tell you.......this happens in 21st century of India.......and I am strictly against if someone calls them a mere fool.....guess, people who says so should go and check their virtue and their love power to stand for their feelings in times of adversity and at the complete loss-loss situation. Moreover, being sad, getting angry and cursing the love for his/her bad deeds or his bad response is very “humanatic”. If love is a part of human emotions then anger is also equally its part and who says that anger is out of hatred is out of love as well......can take the example of parents anger.....

Besides, when two people fall in love, you cannot ask or demand other for anything. Betrayal, condition should not be your foreplay and if other has done it to you then you just can’t do anything about it. But again, in this situation also, you should not deny your true feelings for least you truly loved him/ cannot guarantee about other the most you can just put up your sincere efforts to make him/her understand his/her can do just your own part......and doing one’s own part never means a compromise with “dignity”......please keep ego out of the relationship.........


  1. It was nice to read through two wise and unique people sharing their viewpoints...

    Really appreciate your viewpoint, but agree with each and every word of Kush... by name, sounds like a guy... If so, shweta, i must say u r lucky to have such a gud frnd... agar ladki hai... to plz mere ko introduce karwa do.. :) hehehe...

    2 cents from this common man, who wud like to put it this way that we always have some expectations and it is right to have them... guess Meera too had and she must have continued coz her expectations were met...

    If the love is like.. e.g. i like aishwarya Rai.. i appreciate her in movies but in turn i don't expect anything more from her... in other words, my expectations are limited to her being nice in movies. those are met n i am ok... She never said anything to me in person and i have no reason to expect anything frm her.

    Another type can be where i expect a person in my life and want similar feelings in other person... e.g. if i wud have further feelings for aishwarya, i must certainly try to get in touch with her, i must try to bring my sincere feelings and the best of me in the best of the ways in a dignified and innovative manner. I would expect from her in turn and it is normal to expect... and if expectations are not met... it wud certainly be wise to introspect within ourselves... what is wrong and how to move ahead... whatever path one takes then is fine... there is no right or wrong in that... it just a life anyways.. not one comes out of it alive..
    Better life is certainly the one that has balance of mind and heart, concern for other aspects of life, expectations of parents blah blah blah

    I don't know enough abt meera & Krishna... but i trust that Krishna would certainly not have committed anything to Meera and betrayed on words... Also, i trust that meera would not have fallen in love with Krishna in a period of a month... The word love is more appropriate with the testimony of time.

    and finally hats off to both of u.. :)

  2. First of all I must appreciate and honour Kapil's valuable words for "ME" (heh heh)....For the records, I am a guy Kapil. Your 2 cents are certainly accepted, just pray Abhishek B. doesn't come to know of your latter feelings, wouldn't be wise to do that. But I understood your point of view clearly. Expectations in the practical world do play a role, but mine and Shweta's discussion is on "unconditional love"....
    For the benefit of all, I must point out that Meera Bai was a person who lived in history where as Krishna is a mythological character. So the idea of Krishna's promise to her doesn't arise. Meera was obsessed with Krishna since childhood; which girl wouldn't if she gets to see Bal Gopal in his true romantic form :)
    To Shweta now,- Are you sure Meera truly got to serve her husband ?? Let me take some excerpts from internet- "Her new family did not approve of her piety and devotion when she refused to worship their family deity and maintained that she was only truly married to Krishna. Her husband's death in battle was only one of a series of losses Meera experienced in her twenties. She appears to have despaired of loving anything temporal and turned to the eternal." .....My apologies but I am not entirely convinced about Meera's love. For true love and marriage, you need to be connected by soul, body, duties and mind. Meera maybe was connected by just one or two of these, no fault of Krishna here. Well in Radha's case its different, there Krishna had a eternal cosmic purpose of his relationship with her, to explain which will take another blog. If you ever start, then I might add there then.
    Shweta you remarked- "history shows some exceptional cases as well.why we tend to forget about Lord Shiva and Parvati"....My, my never knew they existed in history, they live in our mythology to solve a purpose. Just for knowledge, Parvati died and then again was born for the milan + Shiva came to him to test her love of old life. Are you ready to sacrifice the one love you get in this life for the next janam ?? You believe in next life concept ?? If so, then I have no problem. So I still await your example of "milan of true love" from history without any further catastrophe in the couple's lives.
    In villages, the wife doesn't leave because she has no where else to go and to go back to her family is a taboo and ill luck; not to mention the fear from groom's family too. So its very less % of love and more % of other factors for which she stays (hard and bitter fact, but the truth). I don't call her a fool at all, rather I respect that woman's character and strength to withstand harsh living conditions, but then its sad don't you think that she is not getting what she deserved. Why marry then in the first place, if you won't live a respectable and happy life later on for granted ??
    In this I have to disagree, Love is not a humane emotion...its the undeniable language of universe, nature and cosmos. Humane love is a part of that universal love called "humane infatuation, attachment, loving feelings" which humans tend to show, that is why sadness and anger follow in such cases; because everything has its own opposite. Even parent's love at times include this, or take any kind of love (bro-sis) for that matter...but "true universal love" doesn't have any opposite, it only knows bliss...those few lucky people who experience it know its value, those who try to experience it know its worth and those who have lost it know its potential.....Thats unconditional love; no questions-no expectations.....This is what Krishna wanted to immortalize in his relation with Radha, proving that the love remained eternal even if there was no milan, but that's a different story as I said b4.

    Continued in another reply following this. I aparently exceeded my word limit :)

  3. To be continued :

    Last para (already taken a lot of words)- Egos apart; if both show true love or at least values the other's true love, then the relation is perfect. But if one denies the value or shows no concern; then tell me what purpose of showing such love. If tomorrow you love a person who can't understand a fraction of your love, but expects you to give him back a lot, then he is actually disrespecting your love. Agreed, you tell him his follies, his drawbacks but then what. He still remains same and you are still at loss. Do you think for the next 40-50 yrs of your life you can continue to stay with him or live your life alone with his thoughts (no 2nd love or marriage). If then you turn around and love sumone else then that means you didn't truly love the 1st guy in the first place. lets add a twist in this story (which is very common). You love a person, you think you love him truly and for eternity; he doesn't think so or feels the same for you. He plays with you and then leaves you (marriage/love relation- pick your choice). You say he was not meant to be, and you are alone in his thoughts. Enters a pure hearted guy in your life. He loves you the same way you loved the first guy (true & eternal love). You forget your past and accept the 2nd guy's love. Great ending.....My question - what happened to your true luv for the 1st person ?? Either you lied in the 1st case or you are not giving back true love to the 2nd person. This is the bitter kaliyug's truth and for once I don't have an answer to it. Well ,I do have an answer but its legendary like Lord Krishna's thoughts itself. Very difficult to actually understand, he is one remarkable character I have ever known....

  4. @Kush:

    Abhishek B. Need not be afraid of me.. I am not interested in Aish in latter way... :)

    while agreeing to everything u say.. the term "unconditional love" seems lil scary and out of this world to me.. so when i say "there are expectation".. i am just abstracting and trying to put same things from different perspective...

    i wud prefer to re-view term "unconditional love" as the love where one still has expectations.. e.g. the expectation may not be for oneself... but may be one is just happy to serve the loved one and expectation is just to see happines in eyes of loved one...

    as for love between a husband/wife ( the underlying pretext of ur actual blog), it better be worldly... both shd njoy coming in each others arms... both shd njoy seeing delight in each others eyes... both should look forward to kiss each other... both she be able to respect each other.. both shd feel like being simple/honest before each other.. both shd be ready to happily ignore few bad aspects of each other... both should desire to give longeivity to relation... both shd be able to understand each other...
    [disclaimer: ofcourse there are lot many other things in relation beyond physical attraction... what i am just trying to highlight here is that there are expectations and there shd be...]

    word "BOTH" is important in para above... I dont see much logical it being one-sided. while i appreciate ur sentiments, words like "lifetime slavery" dont luk apt... that only thing i dis-agree. this relation is more abt walking side by side with pride... thats my viewpoint as a common man... :-)